Ligon Duncan on the Non-Negotiables of the Gospel

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  • Tuesday, December 02, 2008

    Border Patrol

    What is needed in Britain—and America—is a change in the thinking that naively believes that simply exposing foreign nationals to our way of life means they will "catch" it as they might the flu. Allowing immigrants from nations in which the dominant religion mandates the forced subordination of every other faith (or no faith) and their subjugation through state power under Sharia law, increases the likelihood of more attacks.

    Taken from here.

    Failure to consider the beliefs of others is not only unwise, but can prove dangerous.


    skeptimal said...

    Militant Islam would not be eliminated by closing our borders, and you can't effectively screen for it among immigrants. Islamist immigrants would not be interested in moving to the west, however, if we did not treat religions as above the law here. The Church of Scientology has proven that you can commit almost any crime and get away with it as long as you do it in the name of a religion, no matter how false.

    swordbearer said...

    Not recommending closing the borders.

    Don't be fooled, militant Islamists may target Jews and Christians now, but a secular framework would not stop those who seek world domination and are willing to steal, kill, and destroy to attain it. While the target is now are others, you are immune.

    skeptimal said...

    I certainly don't feel safe from religious violence, trust me. Given the choice of killing me or you, the Muslims would see me dead first. You, at least, are a fellow religionist, a "person of the book." Add to that the number of Christians who don't feel that I'm fully a citizen, and my likelihood of attack is even higher.

    My point was that the problem is that religions have been treated as above the law, and that encourages these scumbags to come here. It also encourages corruption in the Christian churches and in pseudo-religions like Scientology and that massive donor to the Republican Party, the Unification Church.

    Reverand Moon runs a slavery operation in this country, and he gets away with it because he calls himself Christian, owns several important media outlets, and donates heavily to the Republican Party. Why *wouldn't* a hate-filled religious group looking for power want to relocate here?

    swordbearer said...

    Hate filled religious groups want to abuse the freedoms found in this country.

    swordbearer said...

    skeptical stated: "I certainly don't feel safe from religious violence, trust me. Given the choice of killing me or you, the Muslims would see me dead first. You, at least, are a fellow religionist, a "person of the book."

    Response: You certainly don't understand the mind or history of Islam.

    skeptimal said...
    This comment has been removed by the author.
    skeptimal said...

    "Response: You certainly don't understand the mind or history of Islam."

    Maybe I don't; I'm certainly not an expert on Islam. What are you looking at that says infidels are treated better than Christians by Muslims? Because everything I've ever read indicates they consider us the scum of the earth.

    swordbearer said...


    There's a difference between "Given the choice of killing me or you, the Muslims would see me dead first" and "What are you looking at that says infidels are treated better than Christians by Muslims?"

    1. History and the Claims of Jihadist - Compare the number of times they've referred to "Christians and Jews" versus the number of times they've referred to "Atheists".

    2. Threat Potential and Power - For Muslims seeking world domination, which stands in the way more, the Christian faith, or atheists who are less in number, who still struggle to be united, and have little voice. (Not to be crass or to overestimate things, but at the present time if it were not for the presence of Christians and Jews, the likelihood of you being faced with either outwardly converting to Islam or being killed would be much greater.)

    3. Theological Adversarial Relationships - As you've said, they may look upon you as the "scum of the earth", but it's Christianity that they have a problem with in that they claim we have perverted the Scripture and form the greatest foe in bringing claims against their prophet.

    (Note, I'm pretty confident in my position as over lunch yesterday I asked the original question to a former Egyptian who is intimately familiar with Muslim persecution and thinking, and he confirmed my beliefs stating as you did that while Muslims would look with disdain upon atheists, the concern of Muslims has little to do with Atheists, but with Christianity)